C.o.R.E. Spotlight - AMA with Angle Protocol

The C.o.R.E. Spotlight AMA series highlights our upcoming C.o.R.E.3 candidates, giving Pilots an inside look at why they are interested in a Tokemak Reactor. Next up is an AMA with Angle Protocol!

C.o.R.E. Spotlight - AMA with Angle Protocol

With C.o.R.E.3 beginning next week, the Tokemak team has lined up a series of AMAs ("Ask Me Anything") with various Reactor candidates.

The Spotlight Series will allow the Tokemak community to familiarize itself with the protocols that are interested in securing a Reactor of their own, and get a peek into why these DAOs are so interested in moving away from liquidity mining in favor of sustainable liquidity.

Next up is Angle Protocol, a protocol designed to offer curated staking strategies that simplify away the complexities of uncovering yield-bearing DeFi investments.

Angle is a capital-efficient, over-collateralized, and liquid decentralized stablecoin protocol. It can be used to issue stablecoins, called agTokens, that are pegged to a specific value. This means that these tokens are designed to mirror the value of the asset they are pegged to. For example, the agEUR is the EUR-pegged stablecoin issued through Angle Protocol.

For more information about Angle Protocol:

C.o.R.E. Spotlight Schedule

Alternatively, the recording is available on SoundCloud.

"We want to build liquidity for Angle without having to incentivize it as much as we are doing now. And because we feel that we could have way more volume and it could help buyers but also sellers to take advantage of deeper liquidity, Tokemak is the natural place for us to go to create this Angle liquidity in the long term." – Pablo

Key Takeaways

  • Pablo is the co-founder & contributor of Angle Protocol.
  • Pablo studied at Stanford, and came into DeFi in late 2020 after being annoyed with the foreign exchange risk of USD based stablecoins while residing in Europe.
  • The goal of Angle Protocol is to expand stablecoins beyond USD.
  • The project raised $5M with a16z and launched in November of 2021.
  • agEUR is the largest EUR-based stablecoin.
  • Angle Protocol is deployed to Ethereum Mainnet, but agEUR is available on many other chains, including Solana, Polygon, Avalanche, and Harmony.
  • veAngle is the revenue-generating governance token for Angle, and generates around $50k for holders weekly.
  • The ANGLE token has liquidity on Sushi, but the protocol is heavily incentivizing liquidity providers at around 40% APR. The team is seeking a Reactor in order to reduce incentivization while increasing liqudity.
  • agEUR's model allows it to be exchanged for USDC, FEI, FRAX, and DAI (and soon, ETH) without any slippage.
  • Angle Protocol wants to support DAOs based in Europe that would prefer to be based in EUR rather than USD-based stablecoins.
  • EUR-based stablecoins also allow for interesting trades, since EUR behaves differently than USD in trading pairs.
  • An agEUR Pair Reactor would help support Angle's goals in improving liquidity across exchanges.
  • Stablecoins are in search of two things: maintaining peg via Curve and increasing distribution. Tokemak is designed to be the Kingmaker for the latter.
  • Angle Protocol has $130M in reserves earning ~5% yield. Half of this revenue goes to veAngle holders.
  • The end goal of Angle is to be the most widely used and liquid EUR-based stablecoin within DeFi and institutions.
  • Angle prides itself on being robust, reliable, and highly useful.
  • Ultimitely, Angle would also like to launch CHF, JPY, and other foreign stablecoins.
  • Angle sees itself and other projects like Tokemak as the underlying protocols that will power the next generation of finance, without users ever knowing what they are interacting with – much like HTTPS and other base protocols of the web.
  • Angle improves upon Maker's liquidation mechanism to offer more capital efficiencies and higher rewards for liquidators.
  • The Angle Protocol team will be at EthCC in Paris (July 19th-21st).
  • Upcoming features include a new borrowing module being released soon, as well as an app redesign.
  • Angle believes that the future increase in veAngle value and trading fees from the governance token and agEUR will bring value to the Tokemak community.
"It's exciting to see how it's going to evolve. No one has much visibility here. People are all playing the DeFi game, but I think we should aim further than that." – Pablo

Rough Transcript of AMA

[00:00:00.010] - CJ
Good morning, everybody.

[00:00:01.910] - Pablo
Hello, everyone. Thanks for inviting me. Glad to have you.

[00:00:06.240] - CJ
Would you prefer sogipec or Pablo? What would you prefer?

[00:00:09.770] - Pablo
Pablo is fine. sogipec is my pseudonym, but I don't use it much. It's just a funny name.

[00:00:19.090] - CJ
I got scared that I doxxed you, but it's on your Telegram.

[00:00:21.370] - Pablo
So I felt there's no problem.

[00:00:26.750] - CJ
Yeah, same. I'm not particularly shy myself.

[00:00:30.890] - Pablo

[00:00:31.290] - CJ
Just give a couple people a few minutes to trickle in. I believe SHARP is joining us shortly as well, so I'll bring him up on stage. Yeah, let's give everyone 2-3 minutes.

[00:00:45.180] - CJ
I feel pretty good about this. If SHARP shows up, we'll add them up, and if not, happy to continue as is.

All right, Pablo, let's kick things off. I appreciate you joining us today. This is our second AMA of our Core Spotlight series where we are talking to DAOs and protocols interested in trying to win a Tokemak Reactor as part of our CoRE3: our third event in the series where we're going to have TOKE stakers choose our next series of Reactors. And the whole point of these is to try to bring up protocols and have them introduce themselves and talk about ways we can work together and what strategies they might employ or what benefits there might be to TOKE stakers. And so just a freeform conversation. I'll have a couple of general questions, but looking forward to any audience suggestions of questions they want to ask in our CoRE3 channel, feel free to drop them in. Otherwise, happy to kick things off. Pablo, welcome! Thanks for joining us.

[00:01:41.680] - Pablo
Yeah, thanks for having me. So maybe a small intro myself for those who don't know me yet, and then I could speak a bit about Angle. I don't know how you want this conversation to happen, but my name is Pablo. I'm fully doxxed. So anything new here today? I'm based in Paris, France. You will hear it from my French accent. I'm a core contributor and cofounder of the Angle Protocol. We have launched agEUR, which has become one of the biggest Euro stablecoins in the market.

[00:02:14.700] - CJ
That's great.

[00:02:15.220] - Pablo

[00:02:15.310] - CJ
I was going to ask you for an intro. So can you give a little bit more background on Angle? Like what led you to start the protocol? I'm curious. Like the background and what led you to how long you've been in operation?

[00:02:32.270] - Pablo
Okay, great. So I came pretty late in DeFi. I was a student at Stanford University in the US, and before that I was an engineer, like a student in Polytechnic in France. I came into DeFi in late 2020. At this point, I was getting yield on US stablecoins and I realized it was a super hard period for the dollar with respect to the Euro. And I realized I was subject to exchange risk when getting yield on US stablecoins.

So I thought: well...we need to create a Euro stablecoin. I came to see some friends about that, and we started to think around the idea of making a Euro stablecoin protocol, and more generally around the idea of building stablecoins with deep liquidity for anyone in the world to interact with DeFi without having to care about exchange risk. Really. The focus of Angle is to bring not only USD denominated assets to DeFi and to make it kind of more inclusive to users. So from this idea we started to iterate around how we can make a Euro stablecoin and more generally stable stable protocol. So we raised some funds for it.

[00:03:39.880] - Pablo
We raised the $5 million round with a16z and we launched our protocol on mainnet after several days several iterations on it in November. November 3, 2021, to be exact. We rapidly grew to above 100 million TVL and to agEUR, our only stablecoin at the moment being one of the biggest euro stablecoin.

And since then we've been focusing first on improving the use cases of agEUR, making sure it's integrated in default. So agEUR is a stablecoin that is accessible on many different chains. You have it on mainnet, of course, but also on Solana Polygon, on Avalanche, Fantom, Harmony, BSC. Every chain agEUR should be there. So this has been one focus.

We have also tried to improve our governance system. We have a ve voting escrow model with our token. So the governance token of the protocol is called veAngle. We distribute a portion of the revenue made by the protocol to the Angle holders, to incentivize them to contribute to the platform and to align interest in the long term. So every week we are distributing around $50 to veAngle stakers. And at the moment, stablecoin has helped super well.

[00:05:04.260] - Pablo
We have deep liquidity on Curve on Uniswap, we are on AAVE in many different places, and at the moment we are focusing on improving the use cases of what you can do in agEUR through a new borrowing module. I could later explain how the stablecoin protocol works, but we are going to allow people to borrow agEUR out of volatile collateral assets. A bit like in Abracadabra, except that we have reworked liquidations to make it far more efficient and to improve the borrower experience. And this will enable us to alternative minting on almost any chain and to launch new stablecoins further ahead. So that's for the Angle protocol in an overview. I know it may be a lot, so if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to let me know.

[00:05:51.790] - CJ
Yeah, this is super great. I want to dig in on one thing. You mentioned you set out to create one of the stablecoins with, I believe you said the deepest liquidity, and you mentioned you're on Curve and Uniswap. So that ties nicely into my next question is: what made you interested in trying...or maybe got you interested in trying to get set up with a Tokemak Reactor? I'm wondering if you can talk more about how you're approaching liquidity...how you've been thinking about it. And what about Tokemak that got you really interested or excited? Potentially.

[00:06:22.170] - Pablo
I won't speak much about agEUR because of course it will bring us a lot of value to have it as a Pair Reactor, like LUSD, Frax, and so on. But the Angle token, we have liquidity, which is the governance token and which is the point of focus today.

We have liquidity on Sushiswap like agEUR Angle liquidity, but this is liquidity that we are heavily incentivizing with our Angle token. So it's rather expensive liquidity for us. Liquidity is deep, but it's not as deep as what we would like it to be. It's super expensive to buy the Angle token, and we are facing some quite high price actions. The price action has not been that good recently, even though it's improving, because people who wanted to buy were kind of restrained for doing so, because when they wanted to buy large amounts, they were facing a high slippage.

And so because we want to build liquidity for Angle without having to incentivize it, but not as much as what we could do as what we are doing now. And because we feel that we could have way more volume and it could help buyers but also sellers to take advantage of deeper liquidity, Tokemak is the natural place for us to create this Angle liquidity in the long term.

[00:07:48.030] - CJ
Got it. So I want to clarify some terms and then dig in on something you mentioned, which I'm super glad you did. You beat me to the punch.

So we're talking about getting you set up potentially with an Angle token Reactor. So it would be a Reactor to help liquidity for your native governance token. But you mentioned Pair Reactors, which in Tokemak are what we have for stablecoins. We have gOHM in there. It'll be a trading pair on the other side of a more volatile asset, something like a governance token for a protocol. So I'm curious, what your interest in getting a Pair Reactor for agEUR would be with your stablecoin. What would the benefits from your eyes be for a Pair Reactor with your stablecoin?

[00:08:36.810] - Pablo
So one thing. So first, from our side, the benefit is that we're launching a stablecoin. We want it to be used in DeFi because we feel it really brings value to its holders. And so having this stablecoin paired with other assets, well, it tightens the integration of these stablecoins in the ecosystem, but it also creates an inherent yield for owning these stablecoins. Since if you can make yield by LPing this token, then it brings you value and it creates demand for it.

But why would we want to be paired with agEUR? So the reason I'd say is everything we are building with agEUR, like the protocol we currently have, it allows you to swap to USDC without any slippage. And so rather than having to go from USDC you can get access to everything. But you can also swap to FEI to FRAX and soon to ETH...and DAI is already supported, but soon to ETH...without any slippage. And so by just pairing to your token to agEUR then you can enjoy...you can swap your token to agEUR and then swap agEUR within the Angle protocol to another token.

[00:09:49.920] - Pablo
Like you can get way deeper liquidity than what you already have than what you could get on Curve and Uniswap. This is one thing.

Another thing is that some DAOs want their tokens to be denominated in Euro and so having the token denominated in agEUR makes sense. Like paired with agEUR makes sense for that rather than having to price. I don't know if in dollar you may want to price it in Europe because you are based in Europe and you're thinking in Europe this is a secondary I'd say utility use case, but it also brings value.

And the other use case which is I think super important is if you want to take a bet on the Euro, if you want to short the Euro, you're better to show the value of your token with respect to the Euro. If you have some sort of protocol that allows you to take leverage like let's say I don't know, you have the TOKE paired with agEUR then if you have a deep liquidity agEUR, taking leverage becomes super easy because it becomes easy to swap agEUR for TOKE. Like let's say you have TOKE you borrow agEUR against that, then swap agEUR for this TOKE and get leverage on your TOKE.

[00:11:01.210] - Pablo
Then you're leveraged to the Euro against the Euro variation of the TOKE price which may be weaker than the dollar variation of it. And so it gets interesting in that aspect. So I don't know if that answers your question.

I see three main reasons to summarize infinite liquidity with Angle for the goal, which means that you don't get any slippage having your asset price in Euro, and then easy enough to get leverage. And obviously there are the other obvious use cases. You are one week away from the immediate integration you have thanks to agEUR, the yield you can get on Curve and Convex. So yeah, I don't know if that answers your question.

[00:11:41.050] - CJ
No, I'm just super curious to hear your thoughts on the topic. I believe in SHARP's article – the Kingmaker article he wrote – stablecoin projects generally are in search of two main things. One is maintaining their peg. Curve does a great job when they have really deep liquidity for their stablecoin. But then once your peg is maintained, over time you have to find distribution. And so that article basically summarized that like to make people demand your stable, you need them to use it in the market, and that's why Tokemak would be such a good option for periods and stables in there – because you compare it to any asset and incentivize that use across DeFi.

[00:12:17.860] - Pablo
So Tokemak would be a great value addition to Angle, but we would also bring value to TOKE. I think if we had a Pair Reactor for agEUR for the reasons I mentioned before.

[00:12:30.960] - CJ
That's great, SHARP. Any comments on that point? Now that you're with us in the stage, if you are talking, I cannot hear you, so we will go on until your mic is good, but feel free to chime in anytime. All right, he's rejoining. So let's see, I'm going down my list. Hey, I got you.

[00:12:52.060] - SHARP
Hey, what's up? So first of all, we have discussed already a lot of possible collaborations with Pablo and agEUR has already been discussed, so there are a lot of strategies that can be applied. The addition of agEUR is something that has been postponed also due to the integration of new tokenomics, but it's definitely something that is very interesting.

So as Pablo said, we can support each other in multiple ways. So imagine that we start to deploy pairs with agEUR well to connect as a strategy for you or the accumulation where we essentially want to incentivize long term partnerships with the protocols that we integrate with. So obviously we would join the Liquid Lockers of veAngle, and essentially it would be possible to decouple the volume that the pools that are paired with agEUR are bringing versus the agEUR that we are effectively preparing for Tokemak. Additionally, we also allow Angle to essentially maximize the distribution of its own stablecoin and holders of agEUR would be able to seek yield using Tokemak. So there are a lot of possible paths even beyond Angle Reactor that I see that are possible with Angle.

[00:14:11.930] - SHARP
And I should emphasize that Angle is doing a great work and we didn't go in depth into the architecture of Angle that I would like to get into, but I think that that might be a heavy topic for the audience...but there are multiple ways to cooperate and just like Pablo said, we can support each other in this effort.

[00:14:31.570] - Pablo
Thanks, SHARP. Fully aligned with that.

[00:14:35.290] - SHARP
And by the way, I'm also based in Europe, so we do understand the exposure to EURO instead of US dollars and there is an issue within the default space which is a distribution in the FOREX spectrum that's still far from the end state. So right now we see absolute domination of USD denominated stable claims, but that will naturally change with time. So it's great to see that you guys are positioned to take the Euro part of the market, and having that diversity also on Tokemak is something that we should start to consider early on...and also start to accumulate Angle if it's possible to integrate with you guys. And by the way, we had a StakeDAO presenter yesterday so we were discussing Liquid Lockers. What are your thoughts on Liquid Lockers for veAngle?

[00:15:32.230] - Pablo
I speak about my thoughts personally. I know that in the core team we don't have exactly the same views. I feel that anyone building a type of Angle brings value to the system even if they are building things with designs which could be improved. I personally really like the StakeDAO liquid locker because many people are not locking Angle to veAngle because they feel that there is not enough exit liquidity at this point. But for me it's a no-brainer. You have a system that is built to incentivize long term commitment. But if you can keep this long term commitment without having to keeping the liquidity of it, it brings a lot of value to all people in the ecosystem.

So yeah, Liquid Lockers are super important for us; Stake DAO has built one. But we welcome anyone to build this Liquid Locker on top of Angle. We have some requirements; we have a governance framework to whitelist Liquid Lockers, but it's pretty like we're not super strict. And so yeah, it brings value. I think the ultimate Liquid Locker hasn't been found yet. The StakeDAO model can be improved just like Convex model can be improved, and there is a lot of innovation to be done in this field.

[00:16:57.790] - Pablo
I feel it's not a role to contribute but more a role to support new ideas. That's what we are trying to help tackle, and that's what we are trying to help: any Liquid Locker which is getting built, because it's good overall for the ecosystem.

[00:17:11.670] - SHARP
Ultimately I believe that protocols are the ones that seek a long term commitment for cooperation with other protocols and they are willing to vote lock their tokens for the maximum amount of time.

However, for retail users we need secondary markets that provide the exit liquidity that is necessary to essentially maintain flexibility within those positions. So I think that there is also a lot of development being made on this front.

There was a really interesting article by Delphi that touched on this for Astro and I think that there are new iterations that we are going to find to be exciting, but ultimately it's critical to have this exit liquidity and Liquid Lockers are an interesting solution...but I'm sure that as Angle progresses we will see more derivatives being built on top of Angle that will allow the retail user to get access to it. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the yield of Angle was somewhere around like 60% APR.

[00:18:16.090] - Pablo
Right now it's 40% because the price slightly increased. But yes, the protocol, the Angle protocol...that's really high, and we are not the most famous ones. We were, I think, a good engineering team, but not the best in terms of marketing. The protocol is super profitable. We have 130,000,000 reserves on which we're getting like a 5% yield. Well, a bit less than that at the moment, but the protocol is making a lot of revenue and this revenue, half of it goes to the Angle of it. But not many people locked their Angle tokens in the end, those who locked their Angle tokens made a lot and are making a lot of money. So there is a trade off. People don't want to lock, but they're seeing the APR. It's not as straightforward to get access to this APR because you have to come in for four years, and not everyone is ready to do that.

[00:19:13.120] - SHARP
And in a hypothetical scenario where you guys are among the CoRE Reactor winners, it would make all sense to get immediately agEUR integrated to provide liquidity to Angle and also support the gauge weights and allow Tokemak to accumulate and vote lock Angle. Right now, is it necessary to essentially whitelist Tokemak to become a veAngle locker?

[00:19:41.270] - Pablo
We could if it's a multisig. We can whitelist you. We have already waitlisted FEI because they're also accumulating Angle tokens. We are incentivizing all the Angle, and if we are confident enough and if you manage to convince the community...but I guess that you'll make a point and that it won't be that hard. You can easily be whitelisted in the Angle protocol to own the Angle tokens.

[00:20:20.430] - SHARP
And just out of curiosity, are you also going to fork the inflation out of agEUR with some kind of product that tracks our CPI, or is that not a feature planned?

[00:20:33.290] - Pablo
It's in discussion. We have many things to ship in the meantime, like our new borrowing module crushing deployments.

[00:20:43.610] - SHARP
It's not going to borrow module. I read the whitepaper. I read the whitepaper for the borrow module, and I think that that's something that will scale a lot and I'm also eager to use it.

[00:20:56.890] - Pablo
Yeah, great. Thanks for this. And that's the reason why we're building this. But the boring module could support an inflation resistance stablecoin. There is the FRAX approach, the Volt approach. I'm not so convinced by their approach. Even though it works, it's fine. I would rework the way it works a bit like the way they are tracking CPI. I don't think it's robust enough. It could be manipulated. So what would take us most time if we decide to do this would be to have a solid Oracle. But once we have the Oracle it's super easy for us to launch it.

[00:21:38.090] - SHARP

[00:21:40.130] - CJ
Love it. Thanks for that. Oh, go ahead.

[00:21:43.160] - SHARP
Go ahead.

[00:21:44.330] - CJ
Yeah. I got a question yesterday submitted by lolpaul240, who I see in the audience here today. Pablo, could you describe what the most successful version of Angle looks like and what it would take to get you there?

[00:22:02.150] - Pablo
So in terms of marketcap or our TVL?

[00:22:06.830] - CJ
What's your best case scenario? Where do you want to be in two years if everything works out as you hope – as you intend – or potentially even better than your expectations?

[00:22:16.910] - Pablo
We want to be the most integrated Europe stablecoin used by all institutions across Europe to get help. We want to be systemic with deep liquidity across many different chains on the Euro, with everyone using our products for leverage because we try to significantly improve over what Abracadabra is doing. So integrations being integrated with everyone.

Like really, when you're launching a protocol and you want some sort of stablecoin, you are using USDC as a no-brainer. But we want people to use agEUR as a no-brainer because we are robust, reliable, and also like something with many different use cases. So in terms of TVL, I think in two years, if we are not at over a billion TVL, I would consider it -- it won't be a success. And then we have agEUR in CeFi as a layer of payment. That's the end goal for me.

What we're doing at the moment in DeFi super cool, but the vision goes way beyond that. We want Angle to be sort of like a central bank, like FRAX does. We want to revolutionize the way payments are done, like Visa & Mastercard taking a 1.5% fee on transactions. But with stablecoins you don't have this.

[00:23:34.980] - Pablo
And we really want to develop the use cases of stablecoins out of DeFi while having agEUR. It's super present in DeFi. So it's like multi billion dollar TVL. Many use cases and then they're like across all chain with no friction to migrate liquidity, and while keeping a robust and safe protocol accumulating revenue. This is for Euro. And then like the success from us would be to have this for Euro and then to have repeated this across many different stablecoins. I don't think I'm ready to go the USD way for regulatory reasons, but to launch like a CHF, JPY inflation-resistant stablecoin...and if we manage to impose ourselves as one of the leading stablecoin providers out there, it would be a success for us.

[00:24:25.090] - SHARP
It's something that we should also let the community know...is that despite the fact that you are just focused on the agEUR, now you can expand to any other part of the FOREX spectrum as long as you have an oracle. So that's also part of your expansion plans, right?

[00:24:40.550] - Pablo
Yes. So we had a big learning curve on the Euro. We launched a protocol. It was a new model. We don't only launch new stablecoins, we launched new stable protocols with interesting designs. We had a lot to learn, and that's why we focused a lot on the Euro. But now we will be more and more ready to support a new stablecoins in the coming months.

What I want to say is that success of the Angle protocol is success of its stablecoins. And just like FRAX, if FRAX is used, FXS gains in value...it's the same for us. And if we manage I would also want to build a yield product for Euro stablecoin holders, just like Anchor for USD, in a way that is fully sustainable – like from real yield, and not LUNA yield. Yeah, in a way that is sustainable...like the DAI savings rates have been great, but with a consistent high yield. Institutions which have money in the Euro rather than keeping it at the bank, they would be better off putting it in the Angle protocol. So yeah, that's what I'm targeting.

[00:25:47.650] - SHARP
I also heard in Twitter Spaces where you were present recently. I can't recall exactly which one was it where they were discussing what was your take on the impact of CBDCs and how would that affect agEUR? I believe that you ended up saying that ultimately the end user wouldn't know what he was actually using. He would just do a Euro-denominated transfer, and the transfer would work. I love that vision. And I'd like also for you to touch a little bit on that, the abstraction of the underlying technology.

[00:26:24.550] - Pablo
What I'm saying applies to stablecoins, but it also applies to protocols, like Tokemak. What we're building is protocols. And when you are interacting with TikTok, you don't know which protocols...you don't know that is the HTTPS or any other communication protocol that is used.

In the long term, people will be sending money, people will be deploying liquidity, without even knowing like that they are using Angle or that they are using Tokemak. And so for me, in the long term, people will be using CBDC agEUR without even making the difference, because all will be hidden and all this layer of complexity will be hidden. And that's why I'm confident about the success of non-CBDC stablecoins in the long term.

[00:27:05.780] - SHARP
And we can already see even within the DeFi space a huge spectrum of stablecoins that will keep on growing. And it's definitely very interesting development to watch for sure.

[00:27:19.510] - Pablo
Yeah, it's exciting to see how it's going to evolve. No one has much visibility here. People are all playing the DeFi game, but I think we should aim for further than that.

[00:27:30.500] - CJ
Pablo got one question from the audience. Crocodile Playing Piano asks: can you help provide background on the motivation for the name Angle for your protocol?

[00:27:43.210] - Pablo
It's a bad joke. No, I mean, we are French. And in French, "coin" means "corner," it's in French, it's corner. And so Angle. That's the bad joke. And it also embodies...the Angle is something which is rigid. It's geometry. It embodies something which is robust, reliable, which you can always trust because it's mathematical. And this is the image we want to convey. We want people. And because this is how we are on a day to day basis, we try to ship things which are super safe. No Ponzi, overcollateralized. Super, not rigid, but robust and reliable, like geometry and math are. Besides the funny joke (not funny joke). This is why we are in this geometry world.

[00:28:35.340] - SHARP
So, Crocodile Playing Piano...now you know Angle is solid.

[00:28:40.370] - CJ
He says the joke is horrible but now he's buying Angle. So you got a convert based on that answer.

[00:28:47.150] - Pablo
Great. But you can always jump in if you want more explanations. And on the Angle story, many things happening like choosing funny names or not funny names. Like we are constantly building, constantly shipping. That's what we know how to do. We were less good at increase in CT, but eventually it will come one day.

[00:29:12.270] - CJ
I love it. And you guys will be at EthCC in Paris in July, correct?

[00:29:16.970] - Pablo
Yes, we are Paris-based. We have an office in Paris. So if there's any community member or a team member who wants to go by our offices, we welcome people to meet with us because it's important for us to meet the white crypto community and we may host a different event we'd love to attend.

[00:29:35.850] - CJ
SHARP and I will both be there in July, so looking forward to seeing you in a few months.

[00:29:39.730] - Pablo
Great guys.

[00:29:42.030] - SHARP
By the way, Pablo, the Angle borrowing module, if I recall correctly, like it's similar to the borrowing mechanism that Maker utilizes with that, right?

[00:29:55.110] - Pablo
Yes, but it's similar in some way, except that it's built with tools to make it slightly more efficient in Maker. Liquidations are super inefficient because you are giving away a wide portion of the collateral you brought. And we designed the liquidation mechanism that doesn't penalize so much the person that is getting liquidated, but that also rewards the liquidator. So this is one of the main changes. This mechanism is built to support leverage. Like in one transaction you'll be able to get leverage in a super smooth manner. That's another aspect of it.

Maker is something which...it's kind of expensive to borrow with Maker. And in the case of Angle, since liquidations have been designed to be super efficient. And since the module has been designed to be capital efficient, like to borrow, to lend, to borrow to get leverage, we believe we could grow more demand than what DAI has.

[00:30:57.950] - SHARP
What types of collateral are you considering to support initially?

[00:31:04.190] - Pablo
In the first place...initially we'll just have like three different collateral types: wrapped ETH, wrapped Bitcoin, and wrapped staked ETH. But then we could be super aggressive. We could accept CVX tokens, we could accept TOKE. Like, we could even have TOKE as a token supported module to allow people to take leverage on TOKE, for example.

[00:31:27.620] - SHARP
That would be also really cool...and tax season is upon me. So I would love to eventually see a product on Angle where I can use my wrapped stETH to essentially collateralize a loan denominated in Euro, because I got to pay my taxes in euros, while gaining yield at the same time from stETH based yield.

[00:31:50.430] - Pablo

[00:31:51.390] - SHARP
This is the goal of it. Basically self-repaying loans, everyone.

[00:31:55.810] - Pablo
Yeah, we don't brand it that way yet, but we should. Yeah. If you make more money. That's why like yield bearing tokens as collateral also makes sense if you make more money on your collateral.

[00:32:18.150] - Pablo
But the interest rate would be like point 5 percent.

[00:32:20.550] - SHARP
I think around that to borrow agEUR against the wrapped staked ETH and it's way lower than what Maker currently charges. Like I've used Maker's vault for rep to borrow against my stETH, and I know that with Angle I'd probably pay less or earn more in terms of yields while maintaining my full exposure to ETH.

[00:32:47.870] - Pablo
Yes, you should wait for it to be live. I hope it's going to be live in a month. We're really in the last steps of preparing it. We are rebranding Angle keeping the Angle name by changing the colors to make our apps more visual. We are finishing up the app that will allow you to interact with this Borrowing module. But when it's good, we will release everything. The module is almost done with it...it on and when it's good.

[00:33:25.530] - SHARP
We are just going to release everything and we will go big super bullish on the borrowing module and really hope to see you guys achieving new forms of collateral quite quickly. Congratulations for all the work that you've been doing.

[00:33:43.330] - Pablo
Thank you. Thank you, SHARP. Thank you so much.

So I don't know if you have other questions, guys on our side and what I'm doing today as a whole, but also the value having Angle as a Token Reactor, like the value it could bring to the token community, there is not much liquidity on the Angle token. There would be for sure a lot of fees on the Angle token due to the future volume on it. And since the backbone of the Angle Protocol, if the Angle Protocol takes off and currently the price of the Angle token is pretty low, corresponding to the revenue we are making on it. Appreciating in value...TOKE holders will also be making revenue out of it due to the benefit of the whole community.

[00:34:39.020] - CJ
Check it out. Hey Pablo, that's it on questions on my side. I really enjoyed listening to you and SHARP talk and having you today. I appreciate you joining...and if anyone wanted to learn more about Angle or keep tabs on your progress, how can they follow you?

[00:34:58.670] - Pablo
They can join our Discord. Maybe I can drop an invite link for people to join easily. So Discord is the best place. Like all the core team is on Discord and everyone can find it. Discord search functions are really bad. I'm really sorry for this. Okay, yeah, back at it.

So I'm posting on...I don't know if this is the right place to publish this, but you can also follow us on Twitter, but this code is where we are most responsive and we publish weekly recaps so you don't have to activate notifications. You just have to connect once in a while to follow our weekly recaps to see what's going on with Angle and you should have the gist of it.

[00:35:57.500] - CJ
Everyone should go check that out in the CoRE3 channel. That is the right spot. So Pablo really appreciate you joining and introducing Angle to the Pilots. I really appreciate your time today.

[00:36:06.640] - Pablo
Thank you so much. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. CJ, thank you. SHARP. It was a pleasure being here and I'm looking forward to answering the questions about Angle and being part of this CoRE3 Event. Thanks.

[00:36:20.390] - SHARP
All right.

[00:36:21.710] - Pablo
Bye bye, guys. Have a good day. Bye.

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